Writing for publication is a crazy business. For me, it's probably more of a hobby/pastime than a business, since I've already had and finished my career (at IBM)--but writing is certainly important to me, and I try to obey its rules and do what's acceptable and proper.
Theory
As it applies to short fiction, one of the things that I've always been told to avoid is the possibility of having two editors or publishers wanting to buy the same story at the same time. It's a result of what's called simultaneous submissions--the practice of sending a particular story to more than one market at the same time, or sending it to a second market before hearing back from the first.
On the surface, it sounds like a smart approach. How could it not be good to have more than one person considering buying what you're selling, and even better to have three or four possible buyers for what you're selling? Well, sometimes it's not. Consider this: Let's say you want to sell your car, and you can think of two different people who might be interested. So you contact Prospect #1, make your pitch, and tell him you'll give him the first shot at buying it. Then you contact Prospect #2, make your pitch, and tell her you'll give her the first chance to buy it. As it turns out, if either one of them says yes, you've probably made the other one angry with you, or at least disappointed in you. Maybe you think that's fine: after all, you've sold the car. But in the publishing world, you'd like to be able to work with these editors over and over again--and you don't want to burn any bridges.
Simply said, the advantage of simultaneous submissions is that you increase your chances of publishing a story soon, and the disadvantage is that you risk upsetting an editor.
Which, one might ask, is the correct choice?
Reality
I'm posting this today because of something that happened to me just last week. I had sent a story in late 2024 to what we'll call Market #1 and never heard anything back from them. (That happens, right?) So after four months of getting no response, I figured it had been rejected, and I sent that story to Market #2. A month later, Market #1 contacted me and said, lo and behold, they liked my story and wanted to publish it. They even told me when it would be published, so they'd already started planning the layout. So--wasting no time--I contacted Market #2 and said, as politely as I could, that I would like to withdraw that story from consideration.
My problem, here, was that both of these were magazines I like and respect, run by editors I like and respect. I even confessed to the editor of Market #2 that I had first sent the story someplace else and that I'd thought they had rejected it, etc. As things turned out, the Market #2 editor was extremely kind and professional, and said no problem and no worries. So that editor removed it from their queue and all was well. But . . . would that editor later remember what I'd done, and maybe be less receptive to one of my submissions? I don't know--but I know I really, really hated to have to write that email and make that request to withdraw the story. At the very least, it was an admission of failure on several levels, and something I wouldn't want to have to do often. Things would of course have been much worse if Market #2 had said they'd decided to accept the story also--that, thank God, has never happened to me--but it was bad enough just to have had to confess my mistake,
Because it was definitely my mistake. What I should have done was officially withdraw that story from consideration at Market #1, via email, before submitting it to Market #2. But I didn't, and that caused an uncomfortable situation that could easily have been avoided.
Questions for the Class
What are your thoughts on this? Does the advantage--better odds for a prompt sale--outweigh the disadvantage? Many writers feel that it does, especially in these days of longer response times. It's hard for a writer to send a story off to a market that takes from three months to a full year to make a yea/nay decision on your submission. (There are even several how-to-write books that will tell you that editors expect you to submit simultaneously, even if the publications' submission guidelines tell you not to.)
Or . . . do you err on the side of caution, and never ever have the same story under consideration at more than one market at the same time? I've found that writers tend to be as equally divided on this issue as they are on plotting vs. pantsing. What say you?
Meanwhile, have a good March (to wherever you're going), and keep writing good stories.
Just don't get yourself two dates to the prom.
I occasionally submit a story to more than one publication, but only if their guidelines permit it. I’m not as prolific as I once was (if ever), and my success rate is embarrassingly low. So far, only three of my stories, and one poem, are due to be published this year. So for me, simultaneous submissions make sense.
ReplyDeleteI always enjoy your posts, John, and sharing vicariously your successes.
Edward Lodi
I hear you, Edward--especially with the looooong response times we've been seeing at certain publications, simsubs make more and more sense. Just know that they can be dangerous, and that editors hate them whether their guidelines say so or not. The good thing is that very rarely would two publication *accept* the same story at the same time, and that's what would really cause trouble. The obvious answer to simultaneous submissions is to write enough stories that you won't have to simsub, but that's easier said than done. It is and always will be a strange issue.
DeleteI wish you the very best with all your submissions. Please keep me posted, and thank you as always!
John, I did have two dates for my junior high prom. But the first boy rescinded his invitation before the second boy rescued me from humiliation by asking me. So in your story, who's the boy and who's the girl? The writer? the editor? the story? Seriously, I don't submit stories and poems simultaneously, but I've submitted my new poetry collection simultaneously to numerous markets, and I wouldn't submit to one that prohibited simultaneous submissions, because the process takes too long and life is too short. And I do have a current situation. This week I received an email from a good small press to which I submitted the manuscript at the beginning of November through Submittable, saying they'd accepted it and would send me an "acceptance email" in about a month. After much thought, I wrote back that I assume the acceptance email would be the equivalent of a contract, that I was confirming I would not withdraw outstanding submissions of the ms elsewhere until I received it and formally accepted their offer, and that I did have questions, such as whether they planned to do an e-book; if not, whether they left the e-book rights with the author (a wrinkle that has already made me refuse one contract); and where they market their books besides the press's own online bookstore. I wasn't comfortable writing that email, but I felt impelled to do it.
ReplyDeleteHey Liz! I suppose the boy would be the submitter (asker?), in my case. And I should've known you would have two dates to the prom!
DeleteStrangely enough, it seems the simultaneous submission of book projects (to agents, publishers, etc.) is accepted and often encouraged--it's in the short-story world that simsubs are dangerous--probably because many publications have expressed their dislike for them.
I think you did the right thing, in that email. It seems you were placed in a bad position ("limbo" comes to mind), when they "accepted" the manuscript but said they would sent the "acceptance email" in a month. Publishing can be a wild business, at times.
Thanks for these thoughts. Keep on truckin' . . .
A lot of the stories I've written in the last few years have been specifically for themed anthologies, so sending them elsewhere doesn't make much sense. Even if that wasn't the case, I don't do simultaneous submissions. Entirely aside from your points about possibly burning bridges with editors, it would also complicate my own record keeping. I think one of the advantages of writing a lot of stories (though I don't write nearly as many as you, John) is that it mitigates the temptation to do simsubs.
ReplyDeleteThis is why I'm unlikely to send stories to The Strand or other markets that habitually do not respond. I sent them a story a few years ago; after six months I sent an email withdrawing it. I never got any kind of reaction to either email, so I never felt entirely comfortable that there wasn't going to be a problem. I think writers deserve the courtesy of knowing where their stories actually stand.
Joe, you're right about the need for markets to respond to submissions (even if they're rejections). If they don't, it makes it so hard for you to know when or if to submit that story elsewhere. What I have (finally) learned to do is wait a reasonable number of months--I think three is enough, though for the Strand and Woman's World I wait a bit longer--and then send a kind note to that market saying I would like to remove that story from consideration. That withdrawal note, even if it gets no response either, is all you need to keep egg off your face if a double acceptance happens in the future. And you make a good point about themed-anthology stories. I'm never tempted to send those to other markets at the same time.
DeleteI have taken the same approach you do to simsubs: Don't do it. They're just too risky.
I won't submit (again) to The Strand or anyone else who thinks civilized courtesies and communication are a burden. It's not the long response time, it's the refusal to respond. AHMM & EQMM provide tracking systems.
ReplyDeleteJim, I understand your feelings, about (not) sending stories to markets that don't respond unless it's an acceptance. I still send them stories--I'm not going to let that policy keep me from trying to publish a story there--but I keep careful track and withdraw the story after a certain period of time. And yes, I love the submission tracking systems AH and EQ have.
DeleteI have two negative experiences with simsubs from the editor's side of the desk.
ReplyDeleteMany years ago, when I edited a science fiction fanzine, I published a short story. That story also appeared in several other publications at approximately the same time, and that writer, who failed to notify any of the editors, burned himself with several editors. I certainly never published him again. (Note: a science fiction fanzine is not a professional publication. Even so, the same courtesy is expected.)
Several years ago, when I was the managing editor of the gardening magazine I now edit, we sere set to publish an essay. It was already laid out on the page when I did an internet search for something related. I discovered that the essay had been published elsewhere between the time it was submitted to us and the time we were about to go to press. We replaced the essay with one by a different author, and the author of the essay went on our do-not-use list (along with an author we caught plagiarizing, but that's a different story).
Michael--it's good to hear an editor's side of this issue. You've confirmed that editors do place writers on do-not-use lists if/when this happens, and that seems like a good policy, to me. You've also pointed out that this kind of thing also happens with nonfiction articles/essays, which makes sense.
DeleteBTW, I didn't know SF fanzines were not considered professional publications. Guess that makes sense too, when you stop to think about it . . .
Your experiences are so useful to the rest of us. Thanks as always.
I try to avoid the simultaneous submission trap in most cases. But I recently submitted one to two outlets, as one approved of it. About to submit to a horror anthology.
ReplyDeleteI'm glad to hear you're submitting a lot of stories, Justin. Just keep careful track of what went where, and when, if they're simsubs. And good luck with the horror anthology!
DeleteThe car selling thing happened to me. A man advertised a car for sale, and I responded that I would like to buy it. He said he would bring it to a particular intersection in San Francisco at 1 PM. I arrived an hour early because I really wanted to buy this car. Soon, other people gathered at this intersection, about five total. We determined the seller had told each of us the same thing. When the seller had not arrived by 1:30, I called him. He said he had already sold the car over the phone. 90 minutes standing on the sidewalk in the sun for nothing.
ReplyDeleteWhoa--talk about frustrating! Sounds as if you can relate directly to what an editor must feel if he's jerked around in the same way. The difference is that your car story was a one-time deal. If that happened in the publishing world, that guy's name--as Michael said--would probably go on a sh*tlist and would never again be able to publish with that editor.
DeleteSo much of this boils down to simple ethics and courtesy. It's just not right to treat someone that way, in a business deal.
Thanks, Jim.
I've never simultaneously submitted stories, even to those pubilcations that say they will consider such submissions. The problem, however, is with those publications that don't respond or say that after a certain numbver of months you should consider your story rejected. I have resubmitted stories that sat in someone's office for many months without a response and did so without "officially" withdrawing the story from that publication. If they can't respond to me, even with bad news, I don't feel obligated to "officially" withdraw the story.
ReplyDeleteI keep a close watch on my submission history to avoid simultaneous submissions, but recently made an embarrassing error. I submitted a story to a publication that had already rejected the story two years before! I was mortified, figuring the publication would never want to hear from me again. I debated emailing the editor and apologizing, but I did not. The story was rejected a second time and I can only hope they didn't realize my error.
I hear you, Bob. And you're right, there's nothing that obligates you to officially withdraw a story after a long period of no-hear-from. I do it because I can then stop, in my own mind and with a clear conscience, thinking about it and waiting. And--once again--I've established something of a relationship with several places that don't respond and I (selfishly, probably) want to keep publishing stories there.
DeleteAs for your example, I bet they never realized your error. Hey, what if they'd accepted it the second time?!?!?!
Always good to hear from you--thanks for this.
John, I used to avoid simultaneous submissions, but now I find several sites---mostly online pubs--that say simultaneous submissions are OK as long as I notify them if the story sells elsewhere. I like that approach because it acknowledges that some publishers are slow responding. Right now, I have three stories out to more than one market, and all are fine with simultaneous subs.
ReplyDeleteI usually send stories to a market where I think they're likely to sell (of course!), but if they don't sell at my first choice, I send them to markets beginning with prompt responses and moving to slower responses. If the responses are slow, some stories may be at more than market at a time.
Like Joseph, I often write for themed anthologies, and those may be too specific to sell elsewhere (although I have sold a few).
Steve, you've told me this before, and I see exactly what you mean. If you're certain they don't mind, do it! And by the way, I follow your approach too, about sending a story first to those who I know have short response times, and--when and if rejected--I later send that story to those whose responses take longer. Good luck, by the way, with all your submissions.
DeleteI wish I'd known ALL this stuff we're talking about today, when I first started submitting stories for publication!
John,
ReplyDeleteLike you, I'm retired and the acceptance or rejection of a story isn't going to change my daily life other than celebrating or feeling kinda low. Positive reinforcement is obviously better than rejection! I always follow the guidelines re: simultaneous submissions. Most of my submissions are to AHMM, which says simultaneous submissions are okay, except to EQMM, but nonetheless I wait to hear from Linda Landrigan before I consider submitting elsewhere, if rejected by her. My only worry is that being retired I'm either elderly or just plain old with a fraction of the years behind me ahead of me, and so the hourglass of creativity is running low, to use a rather tortured metaphor! I'd like to get a good number of stories published yet! It's one of the true sources of enjoyment for me!
Me too, Floyd. Submitting to AHMM (I sent them one yesterday) is a long-range process, even if accepted, because sometimes there's a year between submission and acceptance and another year between acceptance and publication. Two years per story, if accepted! But yes, it's a luxury to be retired and write as much as I want to, and not to worry about whether my income off writing will pay the bills!!
DeleteKeep on sending in those stories!
I once sent a story to two markets, forgetting I had submitted to the first. I sent a note to editor #2 apologizing and withdrawing it - she had not yet read it. She replied "It happens."
ReplyDeleteAnother time I submitted a story to a magazine and later saw an anthology proposal which was The Perfect Market for it. I told the anthology editor about my story and they definitely wanted it. So I asked the magazine editor if she would be kind enough to read my story out of order. She agreed and rejected it. The anthology bought it and it has been reprinted twice.
It does indeed happen, Rob. And when you write as many stories as I do, recordkeeping can be a problem.
DeleteI had the same thing happen, with a magazine submission that I later realized would've been perfect for an anthology. I too send a note to the magazine editor and (as you did) asked if she would mind reading it early. She did, and (amazingly) accepted the story, so I never got a chance to send it to the anthology. Hey stranger things have happened, right?
John, I think what you call etiquette in writing is just good business practice. I always follow a publisher's guidelines to the letter. Once I was caught in a situation similar to yours where two editors wanted to publish me, but I was innocent! I was also in a situation where I assumed I'd been rejected after months of no reply. As fate would have it, I'd already committed, though I'd have preferred the first publisher. Yes, sometimes it seems ethics get in the way, but in the long run, it pays to stick to them.
ReplyDeleteBTW, what did you do at IBM?
Mike, it does indeed pay to stick to the ethics. As for your example, I once had a magazine editor contact me *two years* after a submission that I thought had long, long ago been rejected. He wanted to buy the story, and I had to tell him I had sent it elsewhere and that it had been accepted and published elsewhere, all during those two years of waiting. He understood, and asked me to send him something else, I did, and he bought it. Sometimes these crazy tales have a good ending!
DeleteI had three job titles during my thirty years with IBM: systems engineer, finance industry specialist (software applications), and marketing representative. Longest tenure was as a finance specialist/systems engineer, in banking applications like ATMs, check processing, teller systems, etc. For most of my time there, I was based in Jackson, Mississippi, but reported to Finance Industry HQ in Princeton, NJ. Back then, IBM was the best company in the world to work for--I loved it.
When I started that short story gig, I submitted my stories everywhere (if the mags say clearly they encourage simul subs, of course) to increase the chances. Now, it's different. For multiple reasons: 1. I write a lot more and usually have multiple stories in the rotation - 2. I do more anthology calls and I never simul subs those (I wait for an answer) - 3. I'm a repeat offender at some mags and I think it's only courtesy to let them have first pick.
ReplyDeleteSounds reasonable, Martine. I swear, the key to not simsubbing is to write a lot of stories--that takes the decision right out of it. And, like you, I submit to a LOT of anthology calls, both via invitation and open submission. Writing "to a theme" is fun, and I think those specialized anthologies are also fun to read. (I wish they made more money.)
DeleteTo send to more than one....role the dice. I've often sent simultaneous submissions. Only when 'do not' isn't posted. Always pins and needles. However, I keep a fairly concise list of where and when I've sent my stories. I've narrowed down my list of publications, though, and that keeps me more on track as to how to play the 'wait and see' game. When themed stories are rejected, I adjust the content, cross my fingers and send out again. Some luck with both. I do agree that it is frustrating to wait a lengthy time for yea or nay. Even if the editor sends a 'it's in the maybe pile' would be acceptable. One such publisher, did just that and in return, I supported her efforts by promoting the release even though I wasn't in the the publication. A quick email response is much appreciated.
ReplyDeleteYep, it's definitely a roll of the dice.
DeleteI too have, when rejected, adjusted the content and sent a story someplace that was looking for something more specialized. Why not, right?
It seems few publications will tell you about a "maybe" status for a story. That *would* be nice, and would do a lot to ease the frustration of waiting so long. EQMM does have an "under consideration" status in their system that will at least tell you it's been read and awaiting a decision.
Much luck to you in all your submissions!
I only submit one place at a time. Just too cautious, perhaps, but that's the way I do it.
ReplyDeleteMe too, Eve. Mileages vary, but something works for me, I usually try to stick with it.
DeleteOh John! Don't I know this quagmire. Back in the mid nineties, I did the evil simultaneous thing, just as you described you did. (Long time to response...thought it was rejected.) My second market accepted it, and even printed it, before the first market (we would consider it the no. one market right now, I expect) responded...of course to say, they were taking it, and already had it in process!! I had to tell them it had already appeared in print that month (red face). That big market only considered taking my work 20 years later. (It's sister mag has published several of mine in the meantime.) So yes, I think editors have long memories, and I don't blame them.
ReplyDeleteWow. Melodie, that's one of those times when you actually wish it HAD been rejected by that first (and preferred, apparently) market. Yes, I also believe editors have long memories, on that kind of thing.
DeleteIt's SO tempting, but to me, it's just not worth the risk. And (again) more and more markets seem to be taking the approach of not informing submitters if/when stories are rejected, which makes these waters that much harder to navigate. Live and learn, right?
Thanks as always for the insights.
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ReplyDeleteInteresting article, John! You make many good points. The one market (Market #1 in your example) that hadn't responded after 4 months. You said you should have withdrawn your story from consideration at that point before sending it to another market, but I think it's better to query on its status first before withdrawing it completely. Who knows, an editor might be on the point of sending you an acceptance mail when your withdrawal mail lands in their inbox. That would be a shame.
ReplyDeleteYou're exactly right, Yoshinori. In fact, in that kind of situation, if the withdrawal note is sent to Market #1 before I've sent the story elsewhere or before someplace else has accepted the story, I *always* include the phrase "if you're not still considering the story." That way, if they aren't still considering it (it's been rejected), they'll allow me to withdraw it from consideration, but if they then respond that they *are* still considering it, fine; I leave it there awhile longer. If they reply that they'd like to accept it, as you mentioned, even better.
DeleteBut if I sent the withdrawal note to Market #1 after (and because) Market #2 has already accepted the story, I just say I'd like to withdraw it from consideration, period. Hopefully Market #1 won't then say they want to accept the story--because if they do, the egg gets applied directly to my face and I'll have some explaining to do. (Ain't this fun?)