There
are a lot of mechanical issues involved in writing fiction. Making sure you don't violate point of
view. Putting your commas in the right place. And plain old usage issues. (I didn't truly learn when to use lie or
lay until grad school. Apologies to my secondary-school teachers. It wasn't you. It was me.)
Another thing I learned in grad school
(journalism school) is where in a sentence to use the word said.
The rule
Generally, when we speak in English, we usually use a noun, then a verb. That ordering should apply when your verb is said.
As one of my grad-school professors said (see what I did there: noun, then verb), "You wouldn't say
'said he,' so you shouldn't say 'said Name.'" It should be "Name said." Seems pretty simple. For instance:
"I'm sorry," Prince Charming said. "I know you claim to be Cinderella, but I can't take you at your word. You'll have to prove it's you by putting on this shoe and showing it fits."
"Of course," Cinderella said. "We only danced together for hours. It's perfectly reasonable not to know me from my face and voice and to use this weird shoe test instead."
See, simple.
Of course whenever something seems simple, along comes an exception. This is also from my grad-school professor. (I'd name him if only I could remember his name. Sorry, whoever you are.)
The exception
You can make an exception
if it's needed for clarity. You don't want there to be too many words between the end of a bit of dialogue and the said.
For instance, it could be confusing if you wrote:
"I wonder if we'll have pudding tonight," Her Majesty Elizabeth the Second, by the Grace of God, of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland and of Her other Realms and Territories Queen, Head of the Commonwealth, Defender of the Faith, said.
Not only is that a mouthful, that's too many words between the end of the quote and the said. The reader could get lost parsing the sentence.
Therefore, it would be okay in this instance to write:
"I wonder if we'll have pudding tonight," said Her Majesty Elizabeth the Second, by the Grace of God, of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland and of Her other Realms and Territories Queen, Head of the Commonwealth, Defender of the Faith.
But unless you qualify for the aforementioned exception, my professor said many years ago, you should always write Name then said when quoting someone, whether you use a quote or are paraphrasing. I've applied this rule to my writing consistently, both when I was a newspaper reporter
and since I started writing fiction nearly twenty years ago. I have told this rule to countless
editing clients over the years. Some of them have disagreed with me, but I've always stuck to my guns ... until recently.
Another blasted exception?
Here's
something else I've told clients: When you're writing, sometimes you
can break rules if the rhythm of a sentence calls for it.
That's why it's important to read your work aloud. Sometimes you can
hear when it would be better to write a sentence in one way or another. But I never thought rhythm would dictate the use of "said Name" instead of "Name said."
Then my friend and fellow SleuthSayer Art Taylor came along. I
was reading his story "The Boy Detective & the Summer of '74" and came upon a bit of dialogue, a few quick
back-and-forth sentences. At first the section caught my eye because Art wrote said before writing the speaker's name each time. (Is your mouth hanging open too? Not at me for being so persnickety (certainly not) but because Art had committed this faux pas?) I couldn't believe Art had done this either, but then I noticed something else. The way Art wrote these sentences really worked. More than that, the rhythm of the sentences would have been off if said had come after the names.
Will wonders never cease?
I
said recently that I learn something new every time I read, every time I
turn a page. My experience from reading Art's story is a good example. So here's my new said-related advice:
Usually
you should write Name then said when you write a character's dialogue or paraphrase what a character says. (It's still good advice.) But you can make an exception if needed for clarity or ... for rhythm.
Sometimes, it seems, the rhythm method actually works.
I've always felt that another exception came into play when subsequent action was mentioned in a sentence. Ex: "Look at that thing growing bigger in the sky," said Dixon, just before the baseball hit him in the head.
ReplyDeleteWhat's your take on it?
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DeleteSorry. I had a typo in my previous response. I don't see a reason for an exception in this situation. The sentence reads just as well to me as: "... in the sky, Dixon said, just before the baseball hit him in the head." There's no clarity issue either. (And, from reading it out loud, it has a nice rhyme to it too with "Dixon said ... in the head." Of course, that might make you more inclined to put the said before the name here, but I like the rhyme.)
DeleteThanks for bringing up this topic, Barb. I've been wondering about this for a while, and now you've explained it to me. I was wondering if you could use both forms interchangeably (though I would still prefer the Name before the Verb) as I saw a writer do in a story in (I believe it was...) The Further Misadventures of Ellery Queen. I guess it's best to put the name first and then the verb, unless the other way around works better.
ReplyDeleteIn Dutch, however, we do the exact opposite. Yeah, it's a confusing world...
PS I loved that piece of dialogue between Prince Charming and Cinderella. What a chemistry those two have...
Happy to be helpful. And yes, the prince might have been charming, but it's a good thing he married Cinderella because he needs someone with common sense in the family.
DeleteGood post, Barb. I agree that the correct form is "name said," but I know that the flow or rhythm of a sentence sometimes requires "said name." I also feel the goal is to write dialogue in such a way as to reduce the use of "said" so it doesn't become monotonous and distract from the characters' conversation. Interesting how much attention is required of the writer for even a single one-syllable word.
ReplyDeleteIt is interesting! There are some writers who put in too many tags. When I edit, I often will take them out with a note saying, "It's clear who's talking here." Thanks for the comment, Susan.
DeleteRules are good, no denying, but there are always exceptions, especially when you consider that writing is an art, and youcan't regulate art. (Language, yes, art, no.)
ReplyDeleteYou always have a fun way of putting a story, (or in this case, a point, across!
Thanks, Tonette! And thanks for stopping by.
DeleteGreat analysis, Barb! The British writer Jacqueline Winspear often writes "said Maisie" or "said Billy" in her excellent Maisie Dobbs series, and if often jars my ears. I tend to listen to that series on audio rather than read it in print, but I don't think that would make a difference. I wonder if it's a quirk of British English, though I have not noticed it with other British writers. Has anyone else?
ReplyDeleteThanks, Leslie. Art Taylor responded on Facebook that he's noticed recently from reading the Harry Potter books aloud that she uses the "said Name" construction often (exclusively?). As I told him, I will have to speak with her about it! So, that makes two British writers. One more and we have a trend.
DeleteArthur Conan Doyle seems to use both forms interchangeably. Take for instance A Scandal in Bohemia:
Delete‘Wedlock suits you,’ he remarked. ‘I think, Watson, that you have put on seven and a half pounds since I saw you.’
‘Seven,’ I answered.
[...]
‘My dear Holmes,’ said I, ‘this is too much. [...]’
‘It is simplicity itself,’ said he; ‘my eyes tell me that on the inside of your left shoe, [...]’
‘Quite so,’ he answered [...]’
SAID HE?!!!
DeleteWell said, Barb! And very glad Art isn't in the dialog doghouse.
ReplyDelete:)
Thanks, Krista. And me too regarding Art. That would make chapter meetings awkward!
DeleteSorry. Don't know why I called you Krista, Kris, since I know your name. Sigh. Sometimes my fingers have a life of their own.
Delete
ReplyDeleteOne thing I've noticed in some newer fiction is the absence of all dialogue tags. All I can say is, sometimes it works and sometimes I'm left going back trying to figure out who said what. Done well it does flow and captures the rhythm and immediacy of actual conversation but... I wonder if it's done like this because of how it will be read in an audio version.
BTW Prince Charming LOL!
It might be done with an eye (ear?) to the audio version. But no dialogue tags feels like the author is thinking more about himself (his "art") than the reader's needs. I don't think a tag is needed on every line, but every few lines most authors should give the reader a clue to who's speaking. Few authors are like Lou Berney, who is so good at dialogue, you can almost always (if not always) tell who is speaking by the words used and how they are used. (And thanks about Prince Charming. He makes a good first impression, but in the long run ...)
DeleteDear Barb, Somehow or other this rule went right over my head. Whenever I was supposed to learn it, I guess I didn't. The trouble is I've just published my first novel and it's too late to deal with it there. I'm not sure how much I might have used ... said Bridget, but I bet I did. Gah! I will be more diligent going forward. Dawn Dixon
ReplyDeleteDawn, all you can do is strive to improve your craft. It's all any of us can do. And I wouldn't worry too much about this. Knowing to use "Name said" unless an exception is warranted and purposely chosen is a good tool in your writing arsenal, but at the end of the day, I don't think you'll lose any readers if you over-relied on "said Name" in your novel.
DeleteThanks, Barb. Every little bit helps. :)
DeleteGood column, Barb. I do think it may be one of those things that has changed over time. I know when I've gone back to read some favorite novels from the 70s, I've seen the "said [name]" construction and it's a bit jarring at first. Good thing we've learned to do it the right way here in the 21st century!
ReplyDeleteIndeed! Thanks for stopping by, Adam.
DeleteWhen I turned in my manuscript to my first agent, she pointed to my use of said/name and said I sounded a bit like Dr. Seuss. Using said/name sounded very natural to me because I read a lot of British writers.
ReplyDeleteOne day they'll all learn too, Grace. :)
DeleteNever having been one for "rules," I tend to experiment in most of my writing. For example, I wrote my third novel, "Devlin Sub Rosa," entirely in dialogue, with no tags at all. It made the gunfights a bit tricky, but overall, it seemed to work ... and it was definitely fun.
ReplyDeleteNow, for the BOULD Award anthologies, I encourage submitters to go WAY beyond the rules and be as daring as possible. The weirder, the better.
Nothing wrong with weird, as long as the reader can follow your intentions. No tags at all would worry me.
DeleteHmmm...I'd never thought about this! But I notoriously didn't always listen to my teachers!
ReplyDeleteNotoriously, huh? :)
DeleteI generally agree with Barb that the speaker's name goes before the attribution verb.
DeleteThere's one other exception I can think of that hasn't yet been mentioned, though, and that's when the dialogue ends with a question mark or exclamation point and the speaker is a named character or a first-person narrator:
"You're sentencing me to how many years?" Rudy Giuliani said.
That can cause the reader a moment of hesitation. Is it one sentence or two? Not a big deal, but perhaps enough to kick the reader out of the story for a second. In a case like that, sometimes an easy fix is to use a descriptor instead of the character's name:
"You're sentencing me to how many years?" the disgraced former mayor said.
And sometimes you can just move the attribution to inside the dialogue:
"You're sentencing me," Rudy Giuliani said, "to how many years?"
But sometimes the best solution is to violate the informal rule of order:
"You're giving me how many years?" said Rudy Giuliani, as Donald Trump waited nervously for his own sentence to be announced.
Would you agree with that as a possible exception, Barb and the other Sayers of the Sleuth?...
I do agree with this exception, Josh. I never thought about it, but you're right. Following a question mark with a capitalized letter could cause the reader a moment of confusion. I like interrupting the dialogue with the tag best. (And nice examples.)
ReplyDelete