Last week, I wrote about the attorney who argued his client was too rich for prison, and this week’s article began with a similar theme until it morphed into something else.
Kristin L.S. Beck is an athletics trainer who had sex with at least one minor. Although the victim is a child, the Commonwealth of Virginia does not consider an adult engaging in sex with a juvenile 15 years or older a felony. The 30-year-old was charged with contributing to the delinquency of a minor, a misdemeanor, and is not required to register as a sexual offender.
Beck’s lawyer argued for no sentence at all, claiming his client was the victim and added she voluntarily forfeited her license as an athletic trainer working with students.
“I'm not sure jail time would achieve anything,” he said.
The judge compromised, giving her six months behind bars, but he chastised her for betraying the public trust.
What we think we know
As I mulled over the article, it seemed to me I’d been reading a lot about women teachers having sex with minors. Curious, I googled.
One of the first sites I turned up listed thirty-some teachers. Naturally, Florida is one of the worst offenders. Only three were male, one out of eleven. I googled again, recognizing such names as too-pretty-for-prison Debra LaFave who prosecutors and judges in two Florida counties let walk. And Mary Kay Letourneau, the teacher who bedded one of her sixth-grade students and, after being given a pass by the judge couldn’t stay away from him, and following re-arrest and time in the clink, eventually married him. And Pamela Smart who persuaded her 15-year-old paramour to murder her husband.
Wait. I know teachers. For some reason, I’ve dated an inordinate number of educators and many more are friends, including my writing buddies. Every one I know is dedicated, hard-working, and concerned about their students. It has to be every vulnerable teacher’s nightmare to be falsely accused. But, as every teacher knows, there are always a few bad apples.
What’s going on here?
Something else is happening. One writer bemoans that dozens of women teachers are being accused of sexual acts. As it turns out, the writer was wrong: not dozens, but hundreds. Names poured out of my screen. Hardly digging at all, in less than an hour I turned up more than 400 cases:
| Kelly A••• | Christina G•••••••• | Alexa N•••••• |
| Tabitha A•••• | Donna Carr G••••••• | Amie Lou N•••• |
| Susan Christina A••••••• | Kelly Ann G••••• | Linda N•• |
| Shelley A•••• | Jennalin G•••••-C•••• | Cheryl N••••• |
| Toni A••••• | Lindsay G•••••-Y•••• | Angela Sue N•• |
| Brianne A••••• | Ellen G••••••• | Kristine N••• |
| Tina Marie A•••• | Jacquelyn Faith G••••••• | Rebecca N•••••• |
| Barbara A••••••• | Sandra ‘Beth’ G••••• | Christine N•••• |
| Ethel A••••••• | Rachelle G•••••• | Amy N•••• |
| Melissa A••••••• | Robin G••••••••• | Amy N•••••••• |
| Melissa Ann A••••••• | Stephanie G•••••••••• | Carrie O’C••••• |
| Bethany A••••••• | Jennifer M. G••• | Kristi Dance O•••• |
| Jamie A•••••••• | Lisa G•••• | Christina O••••• |
| Melissa A••••• | Helen G•••••• | Jody O•••••• |
| Amanda A•••• | Brandy Lynn G••••••• | Brenda O•••••• |
| Kari Jo A••••••• | Christel C. G•••••• | Laura P••• |
| Sherri Lynn B•••• | Marla G••••••-H•••••• | Angela P••••• |
| Brenda B•••••••••• | Lisa G••••••• | Janet P••••• |
| Leslie B•••• | Jamie Nicole H••• | Cameo P•••• |
| Erica B•••• | Summer Michelle H••••• | Karen P••••• |
| Pamela B••••• | Emily Suzanne H••••••• | April P••••••••• |
| Melissa B••• | Katherine J. H••••• | Alison P••• |
| Nicole Andrea B••••••• | Emma Jean H•••• | Naomi P•••• |
| Bella B•••••• | Dr. Allison H••••••• | Carrie P•••••• |
| Janelle B•••••• | Georgianne H•••••• | Kelsey P••••••• |
| Ashley Jo B•••• | Stephanie Diane H••••• | Candace R. P••••• |
| Amy B••• | Holly H•••••• | Linda P•••••• |
| Kristin L. S. B••• | Cathy H••••••••• | Kaci P•••••••• |
| Rebecca B••••• | Kristal Renee H•••• | Nicole P•••••••• |
| Allanah B•••••-W•••• | Maria Guzman H•••••••• | Nicola P••••••• |
| Shannon B••• | Shannon H•••••• | Michelle P•••••• |
| Anna B•••••••••• | Wendy L. H•••••• | Julie P•••••••• |
| Sandra L. B•••••• | Katherine H•••• | Stephanie R••••• |
| Janelle Marie B••• | Rachel Ann H•••• | Shebana R••••• |
| Joy B••••••••• | Symantha H•••• | Beth R•••••• |
| Michelle B•••••• | Deanna H•••••• | Makayla Dawn R•••••• |
| Deanna B••• | Becci H••• | Lauren R•••••• |
| Rebecca B••••• | Crissy H•••• | Danielle R••• |
| Rebecca B••••••• | Adrianne H•••••• | Deborah R••••• |
| Sandra B•••••• | Meredith H••••• | Courtney Sue R•••••• |
| Loni B••••••• | Abigail H••••••• | Jennifer R••• |
| Valynne B••••• | Sarah H••••• | Claire R••••••• |
| Courtney B••••• | Rachel L. H••• | Kristy C. R••••• |
| Rebecca Ann B••••••• | Diana H••• | Karen R•••••• |
| Kristyn B••••• | Kanesa H•••••• | Liza-Anne R•••••• |
| Keri Ann B••••• | Stacy H•••••• | Rebecca R••••••••-S•••••• |
| Cheryl B•••••• | Cynthia H•••••• | Trina R••••• |
| Mariella B•••••• | Emily Elizabeth H•••••• | Valerie R•••••• |
| Sherry B••••• | Amy Lynn H••••• | Pamela R••••• T••••• |
| Sarah B•••••• | Christine H•••• | Marcie L. R••••••• |
| Alini B•••• | Janet H••••• | Sharon R••••••••• |
| Christy Anne B•••• | Ellen H••• | Erica R•••••• |
| Rosanna Encinas B•••• | Heather I••••• | Kellie R••• |
| Laura-Anne B••••••• | Amy Bass J•••••• | Tamara R•••• |
| Rita B••• | Hope J••••• | Amira S•’D• |
| Sheree B••••••• | Nicole J•••••• | Maria S••• |
| Whitney Dow B••• | Urszula J•••••••• | Megan S•••••••• |
| Ashley B•••••• | Courtney J•••••• | Kristy S••••••-T••••••• |
| Rachel B••••••• | Amber S. J••••••• | Donna Lou S•••••• |
| Stephanie B••••••• | Sarah J••• | Lynn S••••••• |
| Kimberly B•••• | Christine Marie J••••••• | Christine S••••••• |
| Lucinda Rodriguez C••••••• | Kasey J••••• | Stacy S•••••• |
| Christine C•••• | Hope J•••• | Jennifer S•••••• |
| Wendy C••••• | Marie J•••••• | Dawn Marie S••••••••••••••• |
| Diana C••••• | Danielle J•••• | Wendie A. S••••••••• |
| Christina C•••••• | Sarah J•••• | April S•••••• |
| Gwen C•••••• | Christine J••••• | Heather S•••••• |
| Katheryn L. C•••••• | Meredith K••• | Beth S••••••• |
| Harriett Louise C••••• | Elisa K••••••• | Bethany S••••••• |
| Amy Kathleen C••••• | Denise K••••• | Leah S•••••• |
| Katie C•••••••• | Rebecca Lee K••••• | Michelle S••••••• |
| Melissa C•••• | Jodi A. K•••••• | Natasha S•••• |
| Beth Ann C•••••• | Heather K•••••• | Joan Marie S••••• |
| Heather C••••••• | Tammy K•• | Pamela S•••• |
| Whitney C••••• | Irene K••• | Christy Lee S•••• |
| Michelle Rose C•••• | Mariane K•••••• | Sheral Lee S•••• |
| Jodi C••••• | Kirsten K••••• | Melissa S••• |
| Jennifer C•••• | Haven K•••••••••• | Samantha S•••••• |
| Lisa Lynette C•••• | Jodi K•••••••••• | Amanda S••••• |
| Susan C••••••• | Anne K•••• | Mary Jo S•••• |
| Tammy C•••••• | Melissa Diana K••• | Christine S••••• |
| Stephanie C••• | Abby K••••• | Ashley S•••••• |
| Angela Christine C••••• | Kym K••••• | Yvette S•••••• |
| Brittni C•••••• | Nicole K••••••• | Stephanie Ann S•••• |
| Angela Renee C•••• | Michelle K••• | Angela S••••••• |
| Andrea C•••••• | Debra Beasley L•F••• | JoAnn S••••••• |
| Amanda Leigh C••••• | Adrienne L••••••• | Erin Baynard S•••••• |
| Kellie Ann C••••••• | Margaret L••••••• | Meghan Allison S•••••• |
| Julie Gay C••••• | Shanice L•••••• | Jenifer S•••••• |
| Lauren C••••••• | Melissa L••••••• | Elizabeth S••• |
| Megan C•••••• | Lisa L••••• | Sara S••••• |
| Kimberly C•••• | Christina L••••• | Lakina S••••• |
| Tara Lynn C•••• | Heather L•• B•••••••• | Kristen S••••••• |
| Elyse C••••••• | Autumn L••••••• | Beulah Nicole G••••••• S••••• |
| Kahtanna C••• | Mary Kay L••••••••• | Abbie Jane S•••••• |
| Kelly Lynn D•••••• | Vicky Lynn L••••••• | Traci T••• |
| Heather D••••••••• | Jill L•••• | Jennifer T•••••••• |
| Gay D•••••••-S•••••• | Amy Gail L••••• | Michele T••••• |
| Kathia Maria D•••• | Angela Simmons L••••• | Katherine T•• |
| Margaret •• B•••••••• | Jennifer Dawn L••••• | Tanya T••••••••• |
| Teri K. D•••• | Elizabeth Claire L•••••• | Erin T••••• |
| Melissa Michelle D••• | Nicole L••• | Heather T•••••• |
| Melinda D••••• | Chantella L••••• | Lauren T••• |
| Diane D•M••••••-S••••• | Julia L••• | Deborah Lee T••••• |
| Jennifer D•••••• | Kimberly L•••• | Rebekah T••• |
| Megan D••••• | Jennifer M•••••• | Sarah L. T•••••• |
| Melinda D•••••• | Jennifer M•••• | Gay Lyn T••••• |
| Julie A. D•••• | Kesha D. M••••• | Pamela Joan Rogers T••••• |
| Erica D•P••• | Kristen M•••••• | Jennifer T•••• |
| Nadia D••• | Lisa Robyn M•••••••• | Erica U••••••• |
| Cara D••••• | Amber M••••••• | Michelle V••M•••• |
| Stefanie D•••••••• | Christy M••••• | Rachelle V••••••• |
| Pamela D••••-M•••• | Katryna M••••• | Sheila V•••••• |
| Dorothy Elizabeth D•••• | Elisa M••••••••• | Jamie W•••• |
| Jennifer D•••••• | Andrea M••••••• | Jaymee W•••••• |
| Stephanie D••••• | Tina M•••• | Danielle W•••• |
| Tara D••••••• | Lindsay M•••••• | Stephanie Jo W•••••• |
| Christine D••• | Cindy M•••• | Allenna W••• |
| Andrea E•••• | Melissa Kellie M•B•• | Donna W•••••••• |
| Susan E••• | Christine M•C••••• | Amanda W•••••• |
| Amy E•••• | Carrie M•C••••••• | Gina Marie W•••••• |
| Christine E••••• | Cristina M•C••• | April W••••• |
| Rhianna E•••• | Melissa Dawn M•C••• | Kelly McKenzy W••••• |
| Amy Rita E•••••••• | Michelle M•C•••••• | Melissa W•••• |
| Celeste E•••••• | Amy M•E•••••• | Crystal W•••• |
| Teresa E•••••••• | Lynnette M•I••••• | Dawn W••••• |
| Jennifer E••••••• | Regina M•K•• | Kathy W•••• |
| Darcie E•••• | Alexandra Elizabeth M•L••• | Shelley W•••• |
| Michelle F••••• | Erin M•L••• | Jennifer W•••••• |
| Diana Leigh F•••••• | Amberlee Evonne M••••• | Heather W•••••• |
| Rachel L. F•••••• | Elizabeth M••••••••• | Amber Renea W••••••••• |
| Laura Lynn F•••••• | Amy N. M••••• | Christy A. W••••• |
| Marcy R. F••••• | Kelly K. M••••• | Kacy W••••• |
| Carol F•••••••• | Julie Ann M•••• | Tawni W•••••••• |
| Stephanie F••••••• | Michelle M••••• | Robin W••••• |
| Ashley F••••• | Cris M••••• | Emma W••• |
| Lisa F••••• | Emily M••••• | Jessica Bailey W••••••• |
| Ronda F••• | Alison M•••••• | Toni Lynn W•••• |
| Andrea F•• | Melissa M••• | Kimme A. W•••• |
| Chandra F••••• | Elizabeth M••• | Amy Y•••••••• |
| Natalie F••••••• | Antonia M••••-J••••• | Shannon Y•••• |
| Lynne F•••••• | Franca M••••-J••••• | Melanie K. Y•••• |
| Kenzi F••••• | Allison M•••••••• | Heather Lynne Z•• |
| Gail E. G•••• | Karolyn N•••• | Michelle Z•••••••• |
| Zenna G•••••• | Sheryl A. N••••••• | Maria Z••••• |
Some of the above cases have yet to go to trial while charges in others have been dropped.
A person is not judged guilty until determined by a court of law.
This is a sizable sampling, not a comprehensive list, but I'm making a point. Columnists casually speak of 'dozens', but there appear to be hundreds, perhaps thousands plus many unreported.
I could be wrong, but I don’t for a moment believe predation by female teachers (and aides, coaches, PTA members, etc.) outnumbers male’s by eleven to one. Slate writer William Saletan attempts to extrapolate from general rape statistics. Contrary to an US Department of Education survey that says in 2004 that 43% of complaints were against women, he claims assaults by male teachers outnumber female by 25-to-1 and echoes popular opinion that female aggressors are “less vile.” He intimates that male ‘victims’ are almost grown up and can better tolerate harassment.
He appears to miss the point that many Americans don’t regard sex with a female teacher a crime. Thanks to reluctance of victims and their families, fewer female teachers are accused, fewer yet are charged, fewer are prosecuted, and still fewer are given jail or prison sentences and required to register as sexual offenders. It’s a bit like that tree falling in a forest: If a teacher is let off, is it a crime?
As a 2007 NPR segment pointed out, fewer women teachers face criminal penalties. The day after Debra LaFave was allowed to walk, a male teacher was given twenty years for the equivalent crime. Elsewhere, a former Miss Texas contestant had her case dismissed without trial. The grand jury found the relationship ‘endearing and flirtatious.’
What’s a crime in one state may not be a crime in another. If the age of consent is 15 or 16, then a felony may not have been committed. Worsening the problem, laws that acknowledge women can be capable of sexual assault have been slow to catch up.
One teacher said an internet search she conducted suggested she wasn’t engaging in a crime. Often, boys and even their families refuse to cooperate with authorities. The British National Association of Women Teachers has said that teachers who have sex with pupils over the age of consent should not be placed on sex offender registers.
The Association went on to say statutory rape laws were out of date. They weren’t alone. In comments following some of the articles I researched, many readers suggested the age of consent should be lowered to 14. Fourteen! Perhaps not coincidentally, this age cropped up most often in case searches (varying from ages 9 to 17).
Former US Secretary of Education and former Houston School Superintendent Roderick Paige taught us thousands of ways to manipulate school statistics. We don’t know how many teachers are simply dismissed rather than prosecuted, which makes a shambles of statistics maintained by Departments of Education. We don’t know how often a woman is allowed to plead to a misdemeanor or non-sex crime, whereas her male counterpart may be charged with statutory rape, sexual assault, or creative charges like false imprisonment.
The adage ‘Women get months, men get years’ isn’t quite accurate, but New Jersey courts convict a sizeable majority of men but less than half of women, and they sentence men to terms 50% longer than that of women. Nancy Grace says, “Why is it when a man rapes a little girl, he goes to jail, but when a woman rapes a boy, she had a breakdown?”
While I’m surprised by mounting evidence, I am willing to adjust my stereotype. I once consulted for Sinai Hospital outside Baltimore where they gathered reams of statistics. According to one curious number, domestic battery by women outnumbered assaults by men. (While more wives assaulted husbands, men tended to inflict more harm because of sheer physical strength.)
I mentioned this to a psychiatrist friend in New York and later to another in Virginia. Both confirmed that finding. The Virginia doctor said she believed the reason was that women didn’t feel constraints, whereas sensible males have been taught to never hit a woman. The reverse is not taught.
With that little bit of knowledge, I could understand more or less equal numbers, but without hard statistics it’s difficult to judge. As mentioned the other day in comments of a SleuthSayers article, our society doesn’t trust men. At the same time, we take greater steps to protect our daughters than our sons. Because women teachers are trusted, is it possible some see an opportunity? Or, more kindly, does emotion and sensation slip under their guard?
This phenomenon isn't a fluke and we can’t blame incidents on ‘trashy women’. These are women with bachelors degrees, sometimes masters and doctorates, as in the case of Dr. Allison Hargrave, seducer of a troubled 13-year-old girl. These women are articulate, smart, poised community figures. Many have won awards. They held such promise.
And now?
Like many men, it’s much easier for me to sympathize with women, but can’t we find a better way to deal with this situation?
Why does one teacher receive a 25- or 30-year sentence while branded a pedophile and another's given no sentence at all? I’ve suggested before in a different context, we need to balance sentencing. First, we must decide whether an act constitutes a crime and at what level: Misdemeanor? Felony? Or simply bad judgment? And once that's determined, we need to be fair, sensible, and consistent.
The too-pretty-for-prison defense has to vanish as do overly harsh sentences. Educator-of-the-Year Ethel Anderson wasn’t pretty and she wasn’t white. She received 38 years for her relationship with a 12-year-old. Hundreds of others received a virtual slap on the wrist if they were reprimanded at all.
Society clearly has both a problem and a vested interest. We entrust our children to our teachers, people we want to care about and train our children. How do we solve this problem?
Wow! I had no idea that there was such a huge problem with female teachers having sex with students. One has to assume that this problem extends to women outside the teaching field as well. I don’t believe women outnumber men in this behavior, but am appalled none the less. It goes to show that having a degree doesn’t automatically bestow ethics or morals upon an individual. It seems to me that there’s an underlying sickness to society that causes these things to happen. Years ago I was horrified when one of my fellow workers told me she used to hit her husband over the head with a cast iron skillet. She claimed he was still alive, but I had to wonder what kind of damage it did to his brain (and his self-esteem). You’re right that men shouldn’t take the brunt of punishment, while a woman with good looks can walk away…but justice doesn’t seem to be real common in this old world.
ReplyDeleteHow do we solve this problem?
ReplyDeleteJust off the top of my head, I think:
1. Place cameras in classrooms.
a. This won’t completely solve the problem, but it’s a step in the right direction, making it impossible for someone to secretly meet a student in a locked classroom. Further, I believe many parents would appreciate a chance to actually see their kid’s education in progress.
b. In this digital age, children’s faces can be pixilated with little problem, so we aren’t protecting kids by keeping cameras out of classrooms. We’re only protecting government employees. And, it’s time to focus on protecting kids, not the adults working with them.
2. Recognize that these ARE trashy women (and men).
a. No awards, college degrees, or magic amount of community involvement can prevent a person from being “Trashy”; their behavior determines the designation. Society needs to recognize this, and act accordingly.
3. Recognize that a relationship between government employees (along with non-government positions such as Scout Master, Den Leader, and Soccer Coach, for example), who serve in a capacity that gives them authority over minors, renders that minor in a vulnerable state. And, authority-figure adults who take advantage of vulnerable minors—whether or not the minor is of age for legal consent—are committing abuse, due to the special relation between authority and those whom that authority is acting upon.
4. Pass laws at the state and federal levels making it a crime for any adult authority figure to engage sexually with any person under the age of 18, who is under their authority.
That's hard to deal with and harder to accept. I guess I sort of ignored the news like a steady drip drip in the background without thinking much about it. It's almost like one woman does bad and everyone else pays for it. Maybe we let women go because deep down we always assume the male is the aggressor and they have to penetrate one's inner space. I don't know what the answer is but ignoring it won't help. I also agree the age of consent should not be 14!
ReplyDeleteI read this early this morning and decided not to comment, but I've changed my mind.
ReplyDeleteLeigh, you and I are friends, but two aspects of how you wrote this bother me. First, the title - Good Teachers Gone Bad. I think not. Good teachers do not molest students regardless of age. Also, the assumption that when women seduce, the male students are more apt to be "almost grown." I've taught fourth and fifth graders who were sexually active; some of whom became pregnant during the year I taught them.
Second, I understand that printing that list was to impress readers with the numbers, BUT not long ago SS had a discussion about convicted sexual predators having a right to privacy after serving their sentence. I'm not talking about the black-mailing, just the publication. To print a list of names that includes people who were found innocent or never tried seems wrong to me.
Dixon, I agree with you that this should be addressed as a problem with authority figures not supervised enough in dealing with minors under their control. I would not have objected to cameras in the classroom when I taught. Also, a few years back, our church installed windows in all Sunday School room doors so that there was no privacy available.
It's sad that such actions are necessary, but they are.
I used to think it was only young teachers barely out of school themselves who suddenly found themselves in a situation where maybe she's 20 or 21 and he's 18 or 19, but apparently it's worse than that if boys (and girls?) 14 and younger are being used. I guess they fool themselves into thinking they're in a real relationship.
ReplyDeleteMy apologies for misquoting the title in my comment. It was close enough to make my point.
ReplyDeleteFran, I'm with you: I would't object to cameras in my Sunday School room, and -- as I mentioned on that previous blog -- I try my best to get an additional person in the room, when meeting with a single kid, and ALWAYS make it a practice to block the door wide open and raise all the blinds on the windows, if I'm meeting with a single kid. I even do this even when that kid is my son, so nobody thinks it's odd if I do it when meeting with somebody else.
ReplyDeleteTo me, these steps protect me from false accusation. For others, perhaps, it protects them from acting on impulses they should not act on.
I agree that it's a shame we need to do this, but -- like you (I believe)-- I believe it's necessary.
I agree with you, Fran. (No offense, Leigh.) Good teachers wouldn’t be molesting their students. I didn’t make any suggestions about what could be done because I don’t have any great ideas. Cameras in a classroom can stop abuse there, but what about pedophiles that lure children to their homes on some pretext? I have a hard time with the notion that an adult could honestly believe they were in a meaningful relationship with a child. If we make more laws to protect children, they have to be enforced and parents have to pay more attention to what’s going on with their kids. Whatever the solution to this problem may be, it won’t be easy, but people need to quit ignoring the problem and try to address it. I’ve babbled enough. I wish you all happiness during this holiday season.
ReplyDeleteFran, you're right and moreover, I was (and still am) one opposed to mass 'outings'. I hadn't intended on shaming individuals but to illustrate the scale of the problem. Way too much shaming takes place as it is. In response (and thank you for the suggestion), I've obscured the surnames, which still gives a good idea of the sampling.
ReplyDeleteVicki, I agree there's an underlying sickness. Something very wrong when intelligent people of either gender lose control of their emotions and sex drive on such a scale. As you say, good looks shouldn't rule.
Dixon, I'd add one item to the list and that would be ongoing constant training for teachers. I always hated the harassment lectures in the corporate world, but at least they're doing something to deal with a problem. Perhaps such lectures could help still that voice in the head that says "Go for it!"
Anon, I had that same feeling of mounting background noise, which prompted me to investigate further. And yes, often parents have the feeling someone should pay when the perpetrator's allowed to walk. While the boys weren't overly cooperative in the Debra LaFave case, the father of one was disappointed that the case came to naught.
Angela, I believe both parties must fool themselves into believing they're having a mature relationship. In researching this story, I read a NY Times article from 1999 about a student who pursued her teacher and when it happened she couldn't believe her luck. And she couldn't believe the pain and disillusionment when it was over. For the teacher, it was nothing, but for her, it was everything.
There's an obvious bit of sexism that hasn't been mentioned: many grown men fantasize about having had a sexy older woman "educate" them sexually. I know this because, back during the Mary Kay Letourneau case, I was at the courthouse and EVERY SINGLE MAN IN THE COURTHOUSE thought the kid was lucky, not raped. Sigh.
ReplyDeleteIt also keeps showing up in big-budget movies: 1960's, "Pretty Maids All in a Row" (with Rock Hudson) where Angie Dickinson is the tutor of a high school student. The implication is that the student is very, very lucky. There's also the gold standard "Tea and Sympathy" - Deborah Kerr gives John Kerr both and more, and "Summer of 42" (Jennifer O'Neill and Gary Grimes, who's supposed to be 15) - in all of these and many, many more, the fantasy is that the boy is lucky, lucky, lucky to have this older woman teach him the sexual ropes. There is not even a hint that it's wrong. No wonder there's been a real problem with verdicts catching up with the law, and the law catching up with reality...
Vicki, a number of the encounters did take place in private homes. In one explosive case, the twin sister (also a teacher) of the main perpetrator and a third woman 'facilitated' a hookup with a 13-year-old girl in the bedrooms of their home.
ReplyDeleteIn other cases, teachers rented motel rooms. And of course other liaisons took place in schools and on campus in classrooms, closets, storerooms, and little used areas. At James Madison High (New York, I believe), two teachers rushed their students off to a convocation and went at it in the classroom, where a janitor walked in on them. Both had husbands as I recall.
Vicky, merry Christmas to you, too!
Eve, this has troubled me too. The Tonight Show and talk radio would gravely report that a teacher had sex with a 12 or 14 year old boy and then say "So what's the problem?" or "How come I didn't go to that school?"
ReplyDeleteAs I was writing the article, I kept hearing Queen's Fat Bottomed Girls in my head:
I was just a skinny lad
Never knew no good from bad
But I knew love before I left my nursery.
Left alone with big fat Fanny
She was such a naughty nanny
Heap big woman, you made a bad boy out of me.
…
Now I got mortgages and homes
And I got stiffness in the bones
Ain't no beauty queens in this locality.
Oh, but I still get my pleasure
Still get my greatest treasure
Heap big woman, you done made a big man of me.
When I was young, there was a bit of quiet scandal when it was learned one of the town’s nannies had a unique and interesting way of soothing tetchy baby boys. It was gossiped about but as far as I know, nothing changed and she continued babysitting.
Okay, so take that woman who got 38 years. The judge took it upon himself to ruin her life while others got slaps on the wrist if anything at all. But I wonder now about the kid who was 12 at the time. Will he even remember as an adult? And if he does, would he really want the woman to spend the rest of her life in prison? If he held pleasurable feelings for her, wouldn't her prison term mess up his head even more?
ReplyDeleteLeigh, and let's not forget the theme song for this behavior, Rod Stewart's "Maggie May." Still played regularly on radio.
ReplyDeleteAs an ex-teacher I find this article particularly distressing. As for the inconsistency in sentencing - it’s incomprehensible.
ReplyDeleteWe have a growing problem in South Africa, especially in poorer rural schools, where
academic success is often dependent on children (particularly girls) submitting to their teachers’ advances. Sickening.
Anon, at NYU, a student wrote a story with a similar premise. that the adult's life was ruined while his 'victim' was indifferent to the situation and went on to live an ordinary and fulfilling life. However, ongoing research suggests students' lives may be more affected than they might know, particularly with self-esteem and sexual problems. This suggests that boys may not be as immune or pleased as popular opinion suggests.
ReplyDeleteI'm reminded of 'Davidito' Ricky Rodriguez of the Family International cult who, as son of the leaders, was given a surfeit of sex when just a child. As an adult, he recorded videos detailing his troubled past and his strong desire for justice. At age 30, before killing himself, he shot one of the women who molested him.
Eve, I hadn’t listened to Maggie May closely before, and I see your point. It reminds me of some of the teachers who ran off with their child ‘lovers’, at least one or two to Mexico.
It's like part of that whole cougar thing with teen boys and young guys. Nobody thinks that's bad but shift back 10 or 20 years and you got to wonder.
ReplyDeleteWhen I was a kid, there was a big kindergarden scandal. It was sick. I don't remember much about it, but lots of people went to prison.
I was thinking you meant the McMartin Preschool case in the early/mid 1990s, but in looking it up, it appears there was mass hysteria upon the land featuring satanism, sex abuse, and torture pieced together out of thin air by now-reviled coercive interrogation techniques.
ReplyDeleteABA! There you are. It is distressing because I know you, Sharon, ShanLeigh, and many others are meticulous and caring in your duties. As you said before, one bad apple…
Much research suggests that men who are sexually coerced by either a woman or a man are unlikely to report the incident to the police, tend not to reveal the sexual incident if they seek medical treatment, and are unlikely to seek psychological support or therapy for subsequent emotional problems (Pino and Meier, 1999; Sorenson and Siegel, 1992.) In hidden victimization, it’s estimated 12% of male victims report being raped and about half seek medical treatment.
ReplyDelete[M]any men are not upset by female sexual coercion because the event is "sex-role congruent." According to cultural scripts, men are expected to initiate and to pursue ever-increasing levels of sexual intimacy with female partners. Therefore, when a man is confronted with a sexually aggressive woman, he is likely to view it as a positive opportunity to have sex, not a violation of will (Struckman-Johnson, 1991 and Struckman-Johnson, 1996).
O'Sullivan et al. (1998) suggested that female sexual coercion may even enhance a man's reputation and thus prevent negative effects. Zweig et al, (1997) speculate a man's sexual script may protect him from feeling negatively about himself because he had sex. It is also possible that men deny or minimize their victimization because of masculine standards to be self-reliant (Struckman-Johnson, 1991).
There's always this:
ReplyDeletehttp://newsfeed.time.com/2013/12/15/high-schooler-suspended-for-sexual-harassment-after-hugging-teacher/
The fact is we value our men and men's lives less than our own. Women are more often given a pass as Nancy Grace points out. Although women are responsible for almost half of domestic killings, a woman is 1/100 as likely to be executed.
ReplyDeleteTeacher has in-classroom sex with two 15-year-old students… and 48 other cases.
ReplyDeletehttp://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/02/10/teacher-meredith-powell_n_4760537.html
I hadb't really noticed until this article, but now I see it everywhere, even in my own backyard in Sumter County. http://www.theitem.com/news/teacher-accused-of-sex-with-student/article_9a3cdd95-e62e-50cb-9250-755909e3a8c6.html
ReplyDeletehttp://www.theitem.com/news/nd-victim-confirmed-in-teacher-sex-case/article_fb5d5eb4-9b3b-11e3-9401-0019bb2963f4.html
Married with 3 young children and going after 13 and 14yo.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/law-and-order/10656712/Drama-teacher-accused-of-sexual-offences-with-schoolboy.html
ReplyDeleteNot just in the USA but a bit of everywhere. I don't think women teachers should be charged for the very reason their intent is different. Men go for the goodies while women want a relationship. IMHO one day soon laws will change like for marijuana and gay marriage, so that women teachers in relationships with students won't be criminalised.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2565343/Female-teacher-spared-jail-having-sex-16-year-old-student-prom-party-wrote-letter-apology-mom.html
ReplyDeleteI meant to include this too, sorry.
Readers, you are not alone in your opinions about differences between male and female students as well as male and female teachers. I notice editorial pages reflect many of the same views.
ReplyDeleteThat said, I find it disturbing that some propose ‘tiers of badness’ or a ‘matrix of molestation’ depending upon whether the parties are male or female. Some seem to regard a female teacher on a male student as okay but a male teacher upon a female student an abomination, one shouldn’t be criminalized and the other should be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law and beyond (e.g, sexual offender registration).
It’s possible our laws are overly harsh, but disregarding the statutes on whims and romantic idealizations doesn’t seem sensible either.
I think it’s possible that fellow students who weren’t sexually engaged by a teacher might suffer as well, perhaps discriminated against by grades or lack of attention. While 20 and 30 year sentences are way out of line, so also is allowing an adult who should have been responsible off the hook.
But don’t let my opinion discourage you from writing in. Comments remain open and I look forward to further views.
http://www.the-dispatch.com/article/20140325/News/303259985
ReplyDeleteTV news reports either the couple or the boy videoed some of their sexual encounters. Too weird for me.
This is too amazing. I was thinking this had become a sort of clearinghouse for accused teachers, but there really is a web site dedicated to sex with teachers.
ReplyDeletehttp://www.iheartmyteacher.org/
My own opinion is students have some kind of attraction for female teachers but hate to admit it. That doesn't excuse teachers and if decriminalize sex with teachers (or even sex with female teachers) this will open teaching to pedophiles.
In my observation, there are more female teachers having affairs (or at least sex with minors) but it's simply because there's more of us than men. Possibly also with fewer men in the system and the rules against dating colleagues, society has put together students with out-of-control sexuality and teachers with raging hormones which inevitably leads to trouble.
ReplyDeleteLet's face it: Teachers spend far less time teaching than we do handling behavior problems. Parents don't parent and they leave it to us, but then handicap us with impossible rules. That breeds new generations of teachers who think their job is to relate to students rather than teach. Why is it such a surprise to find teachers having sex with students?
A local teacher sent me this article from some years back, but it’s still germane. I found myself resistant to the article’s message, but I confess it contains more than a seed of truth.
ReplyDeleteOne part I disagree with: “When a teacher decides to have sex with a student, he or she usually chooses one who has a reputation for being "loose." He or she seeks a student who will jump at the opportunity, one who will be a willing partner. This is a safe assumption.”
It’s possible a teacher will focus on a ‘loose’ student and possibly that’s the dynamics behind many of the female teacher episodes, but I think it more likely such a student would have ‘loose lips’ in more ways than one. I could sooner imagine such a ‘loose’ student seeking out a teacher instead.
The one case in my high school I’m aware of was confided by a friend who wasn’t in the popularity A-list and was far from sluttish. In fact, she dressed conservatively and appeared a little shy, and I think her shyness was what attracted the teacher. I don’t think the two consummated anything, but I wonder if he thought she might be more vulnerable.
I confess I was aware two teachers ‘liked me’ but I doubt it occurred to any party to cross the line. Yet I was surprised years later when my mother said she wondered at the time if one (a friend) had crossed the line. But had we done, some portion of blame should have been ascribed to me, the student: I was confident, perhaps cocky back then and I sensed an emotional vulnerability in both teachers. I’m sure I’d have felt more like a participant than a victim.
Thus I seem to argue against myself as I admit Jill Horton has a point. Teacher sex shouldn’t be decriminalized, but the law and its application certainly seems inequitable.
Right in your back yard, buddy. Teacher had sex with minors maybe in 3 Florida counties, Jeffifer Fitcher, got an abortion too. News says she was in love with him and mother got suspicious when son was missing from his room. Don't know the ages but at least one was an 8th grader. News said orange county didn't report her sexual escapade there so that allowed her employment at other schools where she did it again.
ReplyDeleteThis made the news a week or two ago,
ReplyDeletehttp://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/10/03/teachers-group-sex-louisiana-destrehan-high-school_n_5928942.html
Don't be so judgemental! I got to wonder if before all this political correctness if people worried about it like we do now. Didn't kids get married at age 13, 15 and so? We call it rape but they called it holy matrimony.
ReplyDeleteThis teacher blames her student and says he seduced her. And who knows? Maybe she's right. Or maybe we should back off and let real relationships blossom like Mary Kay Luturno(sp?).
http://www.aol.com/article/news/2016/09/07/ex-teacher-reveals-illicit-details-of-affair-with-student/21467683/
You're not going to like what I say, but the simple fact is that males are victimizers and male teachers do deserve harsh penalties and so do boys who trick their teachers into sex. Its long been established that women aren't capable of rape (it should be obvious) which accounts for the stats you give. Blaming women teachers is just one more way of blaming the victim.
ReplyDeleteThis is a seriously complex controversy. The debate is usually overly simplified in the public’s mind that even the least underage sexual activity is rape and therefore evil. I’m afraid men and unattractive woman bear the brunt of the public’s rage.
ReplyDeleteIn times past, the age of consent was 12 or 13 (bar/bat mitzvah), then 15, 16 and now in most states 18. Popular notions suggest girls mature faster than boys, but we ignore that in practice by treating boys as men and young women as little girls.
The legal system is spectacularly inadequate dealing with the subtleties of teenage intimacy in a highly sexualized society. Because Educators’s “office mates” happen to be teens, they may be more vulnerable than the rest of us when it comes to these relationships. It’s inevitable that teachers only a few years older than their charges may fall for each other, and in a former time and place, might have married and homesteaded in a little house on the prairie. Now one is likely to wind up in prison, which may deal an additional psychological blow to the “victim.”
Recently the state of Arizona outlawed the touching of genitals of a girl child under the age of 16. News articles opined that this effectively bans diaper changing, but it should be noted that this law treats girls but not boys as a protected class. This only further extends the one-sided nature of how the law treats males and females different. This echoes the prejudice of your Slate writer William Saletan that men are “vile” and little girls are sugar and spice. As a clinical psychologist, I can testify that neither extreme is true.
Don’t confuse what I say… I am not advocating teacher/pupil/child sex, but I do recommend our society take an introspective look, and find ways to bring fairness and common sense into a terrible body of law and a confused society.
Susan P., PsyD, FRCPC
Are you still collecting information? I noticed these before the holidays. This is from my neighborhood.
ReplyDeletehttp://www.mercurynews.com/2016/12/08/san-jose-teacher-accused-of-having-oral-sex-with-student-sending-explicit-photos/
This one shocked me, not so much the teacher or her 13 y.o. student but that the boys parents were okay with her sleeping with him, even over night. Then she gets pregnant? What is happening here.
http://cw33.com/2016/06/01/teacher-impregnated-by-13-year-old-student-turns-herself-in-officials/
After a series of incidents in the Delmarva area, WBOC-TV yanked a story others and I thought was newsworthy. The assignment was to determine why police seemed to focus on women coaches and teachers. The news director at the time insisted the producer she got the numbers wrong. When faced with the fact the stats were right, he then said assaults by male teachers had to be underreported or undercharged because "everyone knew" only men did the dirty. Since the narrative didn't fit his world view, he killed the segment.
ReplyDeleteAnother recent story isn't about a woman age 46 (not a teacher) who went after a boy age 13 because he had a nice body. Reports say the boy has definitely been effected. The judge decided she was a good woman and the rape an "aberration" and let her off with probation. http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation-now/2017/01/13/woman-probation-teen-boy-rape/96531140/
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
ReplyDeleteThe Alexandria Vera case (2 comments above) has taken some oddball turns. Everyone refused to testify—mother, father, child, fellow teachers, etc. They all seemed happy with the situation and wrote letters siding with the teacher and didn’t want her to lose her job. The only witness was a psychologist who was on the side of the teacher and said only counseling was needed. The judge showed every sign of giving the teacher a pass. He talked about their relationship and the relationship between the families. He said she wasn’t a danger to children and wasn’t a pedophile not in the usual sense. She might have walked or might have got a slap on the wrist, but the judge seemed to change his mind after an outbreak of comments. Then he said he was going to send a message to keep hands off children. I think 10 years is too much and it's not fair to ruin someone’s life sending a message after giving her hope she might be left off mildly. It’s pretty easy to see the court has screwed up the boy’s life with this sentence. I don’t know how much minimum time she must serve but it might ruin their chances of getting married like the famous case of Mary Kay and her student who were very much in love. That's the part that bothers me the most.
ReplyDeletehttp://www.fox26houston.com/news/229045044-story
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2017/01/15/texas-teacher-who-had-sex-almost-daily-with-13-year-old-student-gets-10-years-in-prison/
Thank you for remaining polite in this controversial topic. Kindly be patient if your comment doesn't immediately post. We're not always aware when our spam trap snags a comment and it may take a while before we release it from purgatory.
ReplyDeleteThe one aspect everyone seems to agree upon is the legal framework is failing all parties involved and the public at large. North American laws are inconsistent, with the age of consent as little as 15 and, according to a friend from Pennsylvania where a case is playing out, it’s not illegal there to have sex with a 16-year-old unless the other party is that child’s teacher or boss.
When I wrote the article, I was insensitively unaware many victims feel traumatized by the legal process and some by the fact that a person they care about was arrested and imprisoned. I’ve been rereading the Roman Polanski case. His victim said the courts were worse than the sexual encounter and messed her up for years. She remains in touch with Polanski and contends he has been punished enough. She has greater sympathy for him than most of us, but besides all the other issues, how does a court avoid making matters worse for the victim?
I have ever-increasing questions but no answers.
If you haven’t already read it, I draw your attention to the thoughtful comment of Dr. Susan P, PsyD.
Leigh, a friend noted that until 2000 in the UK, if the perpetrator was a woman, age of consent didn’t apply. I’m surprised to learn that here in the US, the legal framework is gender-based (or gender-biased) as well.
ReplyDeleteIn 1978, two underaged California teens had consensual sex. However,
Sonoma County charged only the boy with statutory rape. The US Supreme Court ruled that laws providing less protection to boys were legally acceptable. Rehnquist wrote that such laws helped prevent teenage pregnancy and added that boys don’t face the same physical, mental, and emotional risks as girls. The court found California just in targeting males as “the only possible perpetrators of statutory rape.” This opens the door to the astonishing possibility that an underaged boy victim could be charged with rape of an older, even adult female sexual abuser.
These laws were written by a handful of men, defended by a handful of men, adjudicated by a handful of men, and judged perfectly sensible by five men, but I can’t believe most men and most women think this is insane.
Josie, although the Arizona case was mentioned above, I'm shocked to see this Supreme Court decision. In a way, the ruling takes the position that only males are capable of making decisions about sex.
ReplyDeleteLittle wonder people might think teacher sex with boys is fine, even legal.
I’m sorry but I’m a little tense writing this. I tried sending this yesterday but a message came up with BAD REQUEST message.
ReplyDeleteAlmost nothing gets talked about here or anywhere about the opinions/feelings of children who’ve gone through this and never as adults. I don’t trust the word victims or survivors because that’s a catchall so people don’t have to think or listen.
My sisters (one older and one younger) maybe were molested, I’m not sure. They don’t think so and don’t want me talking about it. They’re married, one happily with children.
I wouldn’t have known about the first time I was molested if I hadn’t seen photographs that turned up long later when I was a teenager. That’s embarrassing feeling even though I didn’t have any memory about it. She wasn’t a teacher then, I think she was about 19. She became one later. I don’t know if anything happened after she became a teacher, probably not.
The other happened in kindergarten and I have only a few memories almost like pictuers in my brain. I don’t know if it went on for weeks or years, but if I had to guess I would guess a few months not every day. Mostly it was feeling me up and making me to nurse her like a baby would.
Long later I told my mom and one sister. She told me I was fantasizing and I said no it really happened. She still didn’t believe me and I told her what she smelled like and sometimes I couldn’t breathe because I needed cool air. When I tried to tell her she had three nipples (two regular and one smaller one under one boob) Dina laughed at me but mom got a funny look and didn’t say anything more but I think she finally believed me.
I don’t have bad memories. Mostly I don’t have much memories at all but I know I was much younger than the kids you’re talking about. I don’t believe found memories, more like false memories I think. Hypnotism might help, I don’t konw. But I seem I have the opposite situation with photographs staring me in the face and I can’t recall anything.
My main worry is wondering if this past might have to do with why I can’t keep relationships. It probably doesn’t but I seem to pick girls who cheat on me. One really nice religious girl had an interest in me but I didn’t feel attraction for her. So recently I started wondering/worrying if getting molested might have made it hard for me to trust or pick good women. It’s probably nothing but I don’t know.
Today, I wouldn’t want to see either person arrested or anything. I look at it like they’re victims of human weakness we all have, but maybe I’m doing that guy thing where we quietly hold the burdens of women around us. But I’m guessing and one thing might not be connected to the other.
You're a gentle person, Anon. I wish you luck and thank you for your viewpoint.
ReplyDeleteYou're right. We've been watching a Travis County (Texas) case of Haeli Noelle Wey, a very pretty teacher who had sex with two boys. After two years fiddling around, the country finally decided on PROBATION. One boy kept his mouth shut, the other didn't. One boy didn't want to testify. As you can imagine, lots of radio jokes about how to sign up for her classes. This doesn't compare to the guy who's run off with his student but you can bet his life is over when he shows up.
ReplyDeleteI’m afraid matters can only worsen for both men and women.
ReplyDeletehttps://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/news/false-claims-have-made-teaching-a-lottery-for-men-fqk27zb2h
http://www.ctpost.com/local/article/Milford-woman-Central-High-teacher-charged-with-11233487.php
ReplyDeleteBridgeport Fox news reports she has resigned
This Kentucky teacher’s first school only asked her to resign after suspicions of a relationship with a student under age 16. She went on to another school but continued the relationship with the same student. The teacher and her husband are considered very religious.
ReplyDeletehttp://www.foxnews.com/us/2017/06/20/married-middle-school-teacher-27-arrested-for-sex-romps-with-her-underage-boy-student.html
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2017/06/26/substitute-teacher-24-accused-sex-in-two-counties-with-her-17-year-old-student.html
ReplyDeleteThe lawyer for beautiful blond Chelsea, Mich wife/mom/sex predator had sex with THREE boys between 13 and 15, two that appeared in court. Brooke Lajiness blamed the boys and her lawyer argued her insomnia made her do it. The mom of one of the kids said her boy has suffered and is undergoing treatment and she called for the woman to be treated like a man predator and given the max for the harm she did to her son. The woman’s lawyer said women are different and more sensitive and not really predators and should be treated different. Its ridiculous bull. The judge agreed and gave her a minimum for four+ years so she's out in maybe two with time served?
ReplyDeleteThe American legal system is derived from British common law. Law can be made in two ways. Typically we think of statutory law, where legislatures or a congress enact specific statutes, such as our Uniform Commercial Code (UCC) and various state criminal codes.
ReplyDeleteThe other method is case law, where judges’ decisions can become embodied in common law. Decisions set precedence, and unless a higher court overrules them, these decisions become law, at least within their own districts, but often are picked up by other jurisdictions.
Anon above noted that over the objections of one of the victim’s families, the judge appeared to take the position that women are less deserving of harsh sentences than men. Certainly other courts have spoken to that outright, and those opinions gradually become law. Momentum appears to be nudging the legal system in that direction.
We’ve also seen examples enacted by legislators and the top court’s conservative Chief Justice Justice Rehnquist ruled that males and females should be treated differently. (In my own opinion, judgment and sentencing shouldn’t be harsh, but fair, consistent, gender-blind and appropriate to the crime.)
Today’s news reports a number of legal wrinkles following the arrest of Sarah Lewis in Utah. (Amazing how many teacher sex cases appear in Fox News.) Originally charged with rape, Sarah Lewis pled down to ‘forcible sexual abuse’, carrying a sentence as little as one year up to fifteen. However, Utah law reads a “rape charge can be reduced to Unlawful Sexual Conduct, when applied to a person who holds a relationship of special trust: such as an adult teacher,” when a child is over the age of fifteen. Trial over: Miss Lewis was released without prison time.
Fox News headlines the statute as a ‘loophole’, but clearly it was explicitly written into Utah’s body of law. I could see it argued a ‘relationship of special trust’ with a person of authority might somehow be worse than assault by a stranger, but Utah law seems to recognize a bond– possibly a reciprocated bond, might form between a young person and a person of authority. That understanding elevates the teacher out of the rôle of predator to engaging in a ‘relationship’.
Opinions are welcome.
I don't know if you noticed other articles on that page including a video of why women teachers do it. A link went to an article about a North Carolina teacher. It ways the age of consent is 16 in NC but they couldn't wait and got down to it when the boy was 14. He didn't report it until 8 yrs later. It also mentions a man teacher of the year given 10 yrs for teen boy sex parties.
ReplyDeleteDid you hear about the Texas teacher who had a six-way with her students some time back? The most outrageous part is she claims she shouldn’t be punished, that SHE”S the victim and that the boys took advantage of HER. Her hubby and creepy lawyer says the “grown men” students preyed on a vulnerable mother and its all their fault, yada yada yada, no crime no foul.
ReplyDeletehttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mE45LpqOQ74
I think teachers get into a fantasy world (women and men) but what do you do about it? The interviewer said 5 years was a harsh sentence with time off for good behavior. where do these womwm get these unbelievably loyal/stupid fucking husba ds? Bet SHE leaves HIM once she’s out. Got to Wonder how many 5 year sentences a man teacher would get?
A male California high school 30+ year AP English teacher Jeffrey Scott Jones cut his own throat (but survived) after a judge gave him a 66 year life sentence for sex with a minor student. He deserved some punishment, but Jesus… 66 years? I wonder if the same judge would have given a woman teacher even 66 months. The difference isn't close to just.
ReplyDeleteMan teacher gets 66 year sentence? Fucking unbelieveable how many women teachers get very little or no jail time. Both these cases the victims and her/his families were upset.
ReplyDeleteDA let this one off because she cried and threatened suicide.
http://rare.us/rare-news/louisiana-teacher-gets-no-jail-time-after-pleading-guilty-to-having-a-sexual-relationship-with-a-female-student/
ONe got an easy ride because she was a mother. wtf?
http://rare.us/rare-news/a-teacher-who-had-sex-with-a-student-half-her-age-got-a-light-sentence-because-shes-a-mom-now/
Teacher didn't force student to drink alcohol or have sex--she "allowed" him. No responsibility here.
ReplyDeletehttp://rare.us/rare-news/across-the-u-s-a/teacher-admits-to-an-inappropriate-relationship-with-a-student-then-tries-to-defend-the-tryst-in-court/
Unlike your article and many comments, parents say student is badly damaged. Hey that captcha thing makes it hard to comment.
Some freaks are out there. http://rare.us/rare-news/whats-wrong-with-people/middle-school-teacher-admits-to-repulsively-inappropriate-behavior-over-video-chat-with-her-13-year-old-student/
ReplyDeleteThis teach got a 3 for 1!!! http://rare.us/rare-news/whats-wrong-with-people/woman-admits-to-sex-with-not-one-not-two-but-three-student-athletes-she-used-to-teach/
ReplyDeleteTexas teachers are breaking records.
ReplyDeletehttp://rare.us/rare-news/teachers-and-students-in-this-state-are-having-sex-so-much-that-theyre-breaking-records/
http://rare.us/rare-news/a-married-texas-anatomy-teacher-smiled-from-ear-to-ear-after-a-sex-with-student-accusation-landed-her-in-jail/
http://rare.us/rare-news/whats-wrong-with-people/engaged-texas-teacher-throws-away-the-future-for-sex-on-a-park-bench-with-a-minor-police-say/
https://www-thesun-co-uk.cdn.ampproject.org/c/s/www.thesun.co.uk/news/5908502/married-teacher-sex-act-texts-arizona/amp/
ReplyDeleteOne of the wildest cases happened north of here. A music teacher started sex with a 13 year female student. She lost her job but nothing more. Police arrested the junior high school principal for not reporting a crime. She walked but he didn't.
ReplyDeleteAnother wild one was a married teacher who used had access to a shelter for abused boys and used it has her hunting grounds. She started with the first boy just days after being hired and seduced at least 4 boys, one 13. She was let out on bail but I never heard about her going to trial. See #6.
https://www.thoughtco.com/female-teachers-arrested-sex-with-students-973219
I think it was #7 I heard about who pretended to be a student and seduced 3-4 boys.
https://nypost.com/2018/07/03/teacher-busted-for-sex-with-students-caught-driving-with-alleged-victim/amp/
ReplyDeleteMale writers for Slate and Salon have this view that women are good little girls incapable of naughty thoughts and deeds. To back their denial claims, they make wild, unresearched arguments like men commit 99.99% of sex crimes. Salon and Slate, if you can't reasearch, you shouldn't be fucking writing.... or writing about fucking.
ReplyDeleteLook how a woman presents a realistical case....
https://jezebel.com/what-are-we-to-make-of-the-case-of-scholar-avital-ronel-1828366966
And then look how a man stumbles over it....
https://www.salon.com/2018/08/18/when-a-woman-is-accused-of-sexual-misconduct-the-strange-case-of-avital-ronell/
video
ReplyDeletehttps://players.brightcove.net/4137224153001/default_default/index.html?videoId=5604101907001
You make a lot out of nothing. It isn't a problem to be solved. Why should not women date younger? It's anti-feminist to decry women for finding happiness. Here is a great love story.
ReplyDeleteBrigitte Trogneux Macron, the wife of French President Emmanuel Macron, was his teacher. She became fixed on him when he was 15 and she was 40, married with children. He misled his parents into thinking he was dating her daughter. When his parents discovered the affair, they were shocked and angry. The mother told Mme. Trogneux she had lived her own life and she wanted grandchildren. They pulled the boy out and sent him to Paris, but he avowed to return and marry her. She followed to Paris not long after.
You can find this love story here :
https://www.thelocal.fr/20170507/whos-the-older-woman-in-presidential-hopeful-macrons-life
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/emmanuel-macron-parents-how-discovered-affair-drama-teacher-brigitte-trogneux-dating-french-a7724201.html
https://www.star-telegram.com/news/local/crime/article207460444.html
ReplyDeleteMeant to send you this earlier to let you know Goline’s conviction. Conviction? Ha. One county chose not to prosecute. The state let her off.
https://www.star-telegram.com/news/local/crime/article207460444.html
After sex binges with 4 students shortly after she married, Goline was given probation. One of the kids got upset because she banged and blew 2 on the same night. The only reason she was arrested was one of the kids was 15 or 16.
https://www.thehollywoodgossip.com/2017/09/jessie-lorene-goline-arkansas-high-school-teacher-arrested-for-m/
The DA said woman teacher sex has become epidemic, but everybody seems fine with it. She’s now got kind of a cult celeb status.
https://heavy.com/news/2017/09/jessie-goline-arkansas-photos-teacher-sex-accusations-student-lorene-pics/
She even made the national news
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2017/09/21/boys-brag-police-say-art-teacher-was-caught-having-sex-with-four-students/
and international news
https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/4513675/teacher-25-sent-teen-pupils-sexy-selfies-and-slept-with-four-different-lads-including-taking-two-home-on-the-same-night/
Does anybody care?
@austonite, you're thinking of Tad Cummins, the former teacher accused of running off with an age 15 girl student from Tennessee. I think he hasn't been sentenced yet, but he's facing minimum 10 years state charges plus 20 years federal charges, with a possible sentence of 40 years.
ReplyDeleteHere's the weird thing, an almost exact mirror image case.
https://www.foxnews.com/us/ex-teacher-who-ran-off-with-student-gets-probation
Cummins case almost duplicates a previous case of teacher Lisa Lavoie. She ran off with an age 15 boy, crossing state lines just as Cummins. However the feds didn't charge her and the fucking Tennessee judge Cornelius Moriarty seemed to fall in love with her. He blamed the boy and said she wasn't a predator or a danger and wasn't out for sexual gratification (all evidence to the contrary) which you can bet dismayed the prosecutor. He said seducing the boy was a kindness. He told the teacher not to worry as he ignored minimum mandatory sentencing and suspended jail time for probation. He refused to order the teacher to avoid contact with children under 16 or require her to register as a sexual predator.
You could say Cummins ruined his own life, but we have two identical cases, one where a teacher could die in prison and another where the judge all but threw out the charges. Couldn't courts come up with some reasonable compromise and stick to it? Of course that might not stop judge Moriarty who fell head over heels for the teacher.
Oh, forgot to say California police said Cummins and the girl obviously had feelings for each other and a relationship.
ReplyDeleteIn the late 70s I grew up in a town on the Maine/New Hampshire border. Our middle school principal was Mrs. D___. I'm not sure there was ever a Mr. D___.
ReplyDeleteOur school was barely big enough to field 11 boys for football, the same guys who played basketball and baseball. It didn't take long to figure out Mrs. D___ liked to enter the lockerroom after practice. Technically she visited the coach's office, but it had a big window looking out on the dressing room and further back the showers. I reckon not coming out among the dressing benches gave her a degree of deniability, but no one was really fooled.
Coach said Mrs. D's presence made certain stuff like bullying didn't happen. The student manager said women reporters won the right to interview players in college and professional locker rooms, and this was no different, so get used to it.
Some of the boys were shy, and dressed around the corner in the L formed by the equipment cage. A couple of boys up front would flaunt their goodies. Let's just say Mrs. D___ had a pretty good idea what boys carried between their legs even if we weren't matured yet.
I never ever heard she touched anyone, just with her eyes. But we weren't so dumb that we didn't know something off was going on. We knew she got an eyeful but it didn't rise to anything awful. She could always say she was just visiting the coach.
When I got older, I figure when Mrs. D___ found herself home alone at night, she turned out the lights and pictured the boys she'd seen. In school it seemed weird or creepy, but now I mostly feel sorry for her. I feel kind of bad in another way for her. Students really want to respect their teachers, but the ... not sure the right word but the sneaky way she went about peeping disgusted some of us. It would have been better if she didn't pretend to visit the coach but just came for the floor show. Is that weird thinking or what?
Anyway, no molestation or sex that I knew about , just a sad lady who wasn't perfect. Probably lots of male teachers like that too.
Readers have been busy!
ReplyDeleteAnon Michigan, the argument that men predate and women don’t, and therefore harsh sentences are more suitable for men. That carries a lot of weight, especially with men as judges and jurists.
Anon Texas, I also read specious arguments where teachers blame the students, “And then he kissed me and my panties sort of fell off and then I took him home and later we went to a motel and it’s all his fault.”
Julia, a news video here in Florida showed a man who after the verdict and sentencing surreptitiously took pills before being searched. He died on the spot. Some obviously feel their lives are over, and they’re probably right.
Anon Captcha, I didn’t say boys weren’t damaged, but clearly some attorneys, judges, and late night commedians believe that to be true.
WJM, did I read that right? The teacher walked but the principal was arrested because he didn’t report her? It seems to me if prosecutors didn’t treat the teacher’s activities as a crime, it seems logical to argue the principal didn’t commit a crime either. Just sayin’.
Anon, I borrowed your Slate/Salon comment to use elsewhere.
Anne, thanks for the video. Often people forget about the teachers’ families.
Friend, I understand your argument and yes, I also know the story of Abélard and Héloïse, but look at what happened to them. We can’t determine the depth of love in advance. I don’t outright reject it, but forgive me for not blindly buying the love story angle for the majority of teacher-student relationships. The Macrons appear more the exception than the rule as did Mary Kay Letourneau, but I suspect these things can only be verified in retrospect. In the case of Cummins mentioned above, police indicated there was caring and protectiveness. One could argue they might be one another’s lifetime love, but who knows?
Arkansas, I can’t account for prosecutors refusing to indict. It’s certainly not for a lack of evidence. I do think people care, but have wildly varyingly opinions.
Anon, those cases present an interesting comparison. I haven’t heard Cummins was sentenced, so it may not have happened yet. I haven’t been a big buyer of relationships, but a few examples have shown relationships (such as the Macrons) that turned into marriages.
Anon Nashua, we had a grade school teacher who caused students to look askance when she’d march into the grades 1-12 boys’ restroom. Innocent as we were, we still sensed something hinky about it. On top of that, she was a harsh, disliked teacher. A female classmate who had her as a teacher said she sucked all the joy out of learning. Looking back, I’m very surprised no adult stepped in to correct the bizarre restroom voyeurism, but to my knowledge, no one ever did.
Stepping beyond mixed feelings about the topic, the only certainty is that society handles the situation poorly. I don’t know the answers, only that we’re way out of balance on many levels.
Thanks for the comments.
At least you're willing to consider more than one side. It seems news writers glamorize, rationalize, or deny the women teacher sex problem altogether. Another made the local news last night and this morning talk radio was all a flutter asking why it's a crime and such a rare one that almost never happens, like they'd bothered to research, ha. The 15 kid may have been 14 when it started.
ReplyDeleteThe facts are staggering. Men get years, women get months? How about one week? You write about America and England, but we have the same phenom in Australia. See this article.
ReplyDeletehttps://www.news.com.au/national/nsw-act/exflight-attendant-serves-one-week-in-jail-for-sex-with-15yearold/news-story/49ed5e9e41dbda128f18188c01182f07
BTW FYI, I tried several times to comment and was about to give up when suddenly today it worked.
Before I forget, teacher sex is even tv entertainment with sort of a split personality. Click here.
ReplyDeletehttps://news.yahoo.com/teacher-sleeps-student-ends-badly-190000941.html
https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/13673390/substitute-teacher-kentucky-rape-court-update/
ReplyDeleteWhy are you deleting our comments? No one wants to talk about this and now you cave.
ReplyDeleteGood afternoon. We also see disparity in sentencing. Here in Australia (Sydney), a teacher (and former stewardess, as the papers make pains to point out), was given 1 week incarceration after sex with a boy age 15. Not much of an outcry. She's become a poster girl glamourising youngster sex. Here jokes go that she felt her youth slipping away.
ReplyDeletehttps://www.news.com.au/national/nsw-act/exflight-attendant-serves-one-week-in-jail-for-sex-with-15yearold/news-story/49ed5e9e41dbda128f18188c01182f07
https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/1406438/teacher-jail-kandice-barber-pupil-fifteen-years-old-six-years
ReplyDeleteSome justice at last, maybe. That awful woman traumatised that lad. She manipulated him and threatened him. Barber got what she deserves. Horrid, horrid comments.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/crime/former-camden-catholic-teacher-gets-jail-term-for-relationship-with-student/ar-BB1gKcbc
ReplyDeletehttps://www.msn.com/en-us/news/crime/ra-hubbard-teacher-dies-one-day-after-being-arrested-on-sexual-abuse-charges/ar-AAKwdF7
ReplyDeleteThis is like 2 tragedies, first the kid and now the teacher. She's definitely not on the too pretty for prison list. Call me f*cked up, but I feel sorry for both.
Maybe worthhitting but it goes and goes
ReplyDeletehttps://www.yahoo.com/news/california-teacher-faces-15-charges-205343549.html
Not so much
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Es_-aqkaM0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s3mHc0CBo3E
ReplyDeleteI can't believe these 2 teachers might be brought to justice. Rumors have circulated for a LONG time. I think at first everyone thought it not true and that boys were just making up blojobs in the bleachers stories. We supposed the gossip was malicious, but it became too persistent to ignore. Braud is either flat out lying or blind and stupid. I think hearings should be moved out of the county to prevent Wingerter's politically popular family from interfering.
What! You won't let me comment?
ReplyDeleteCommunities get upset they're dragged thru the mud. This is another pair of teachers, one of them after a girl.
ReplyDeletehttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L2btBQu7UCs
13 year old boy vs 27 year old gorgeous teacher, married of course. I knew some of the people involved. Unlike many situations, the parents were furious and very active in the prosecution. My earlier comment at the time got removed, but this shouldn’t be forgotten. One of the most outrageous parts is the defendant blamed the victim, which resulted in bullying. The teacher was more than twice as old as the student. Really sad. I don’t understand why these badly betrayed husbands stand by their woman.
ReplyDeletehttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sNC1RKn1wE0
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